The march to Nazism takes another step

  • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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    3 days ago

    As I recall, studying for an IQ test is able to improve your result by around 7%. That’s honestly a pretty impressively low %, indicates to me some level of validity just based on that. What other variables are considered? And can you link me to the language thing? When I look up language, I’m just seeing correlation between language proficiency and IQ, which shouldn’t be surprising – I would imagine that people who measure a higher IQ are better at learning languages.

    There is great interest in studying IQ, and people do study that quite seriously.

    Philosophically I don’t really think there’s a uniform agreement on what exactly defines general intellect

    Agreed, and the person you’re replying to said essentially the same thing. IQ itself has correlations with other things, and that alone makes it interesting.

    • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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      3 days ago

      This article does a pretty decent job pointing out some of the variabilities that make IQ test unreliable. Tbh I think the concept of IQ is fruit from the poisoned tree. There are so many people that stake their positions and identities on the efficacy of IQ that the whole data pool is kinda poisoned. For every study that makes a claim, there are other studies rebutting it.

      And can you link me to the language thing? When I look up language, I’m just seeing correlation between language proficiency and IQ, which shouldn’t be surprising – I would imagine that people who measure a higher IQ are better at learning languages.

      I would have to search for it, i originally read about it when I was in college over a decade ago. Basically the claim was that the vast majority of the tests originate or are interpreted from English or another western language. When certain aspects of the test are interpreted to a different language the sentence structure is modified in a way where it adds an additional barrier for the test taker.

      This may be somewhat solved by the different language speakers creating their own test, but that may not overcome the problem due to the need for global standardization, orit may be a barrier to language speakers who’s cultures haven’t invested the time or resources to the idea of IQ to begin with.

      • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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        3 days ago

        Ah, right. Yeah, there are some age-old criticisisms of IQ test like translating into a different language can skew the result, or relying on concepts that are cultural but not obviously cultural (like the way buildings are shaped) can skew the result. I’m not generally interested in comparing IQ results between countries or even for people of differing first language though so these don’t especially concern me so long as I can be sure a study averts the issue.

        From the paper you linked:

        there exists a gap in what they are believed to measure and what they do

        Hard agree. IQ cannot be said to measure intelligence. But for instance, it correlates well with success (level of education (eventually) reached, or $ in a capitalist society) and I’d be surprised to find any major journal publishing a paper which disputes that.

        • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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          3 days ago

          I’m not generally interested in comparing IQ results between countries or even for people of differing first language though so these don’t especially concern me so long as I can be sure a study averts the issue.

          My point is the variability between test groups calls into question the reliability of IQ as a concept as a whole. If IQ is an innate measurement of intellect for humans in general, then the reliability of the test shouldn’t be culturally constrained.

          for instance, it correlates well with success (level of education (eventually) reached, or $ in a capitalist society) and I’d be surprised to find any major journal publishing a paper which disputes that.

          Yes, but I could make the same claim about a plethora of other correlations with more confidence like having wealthy parents.

          • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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            2 days ago

            IQ is not a measurement of human intellect in general. Also, the fact that the test is flawed does not mean it is not useful in some contexts.

            Regarding correlation with success, I should have specified that the correlation still exists even when controlling for birth environment.

            • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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              2 days ago

              IQ is not a measurement of human intellect in general.

              I don’t think there’s a scientific consensus of what IQ really measures.

              Regarding correlation with success, I should have specified that the correlation still exists even when controlling for birth environment.

              I would say that would be extremely difficult to definitively prove. IQ is more of a social study than a hard science, typically this kinda data is more suggestive than it is definite.

              • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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                2 days ago

                There may not be scientific consensus on what IQ measures, but IQ=intellect is widely considered pseudoscience.

                • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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                  2 days ago

                  An intelligence quotient (IQ) is a total score derived from a set of standardized tests or subtests designed to assess human intelligence.[1]

                  What exactly are you claiming? That it’s not a test to measure intellect? That IQ is pseudoscience? Or that it’s not specifically generalized intellect?

                  • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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                    2 days ago

                    It’s polite etiquette to mention what you’re quoting.

                    Scores from intelligence tests are estimates of intelligence. Unlike, for example, distance and mass, a concrete measure of intelligence cannot be achieved given the abstract nature of the concept of “intelligence”.